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Posts: 1802
Feb 25 10 10:31 PM
"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure." - Segal's Law
Posts: 7270
Feb 26 10 5:48 AM
Feb 26 10 6:20 AM
Posts: 2300
Feb 26 10 9:34 AM
Bible Believer
BTW, you never did answer the real question regarding "orthodox church"????? Do you believe that JESUS CHRIST can "SAVE" lost souls without an "orthodox church" involved? Why did you run away when I asked this???
Feb 26 10 9:39 AM
So I John 5:7 is a man made myth?
Posts: 1861
Feb 26 10 11:14 AM
Do you believe that 1 John 5:7 belongs in the Scriptures or do you take the position that it is an interpolation and should be stricken from the text?
Posts: 1837
Feb 26 10 12:42 PM
XrcTim wrote: BTW, you never did answer the real question regarding "orthodox church"????? Do you believe that JESUS CHRIST can "SAVE" lost souls without an "orthodox church" involved? Why did you run away when I asked this???When did I ever say that salvation depended on an orthodox church being involved? Jesus Christ, God the Son saves souls, not a church. What I am saying is that a person who denies orthodox doctrine such as the Virgin birth or the Deity of Christ and yes the Trinity are probably not saved despite the fact they claim that they are. How can you be saved by someone (Jesus Christ) you don't even believe in? What I also said is that a person who denies these fundamental truths would probably not attend an orthodox (fundamental) church.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Posts: 3482
Feb 26 10 1:44 PM
<when did I ever say that SALVATION depended on an orthodox church being involved?>I asked you this directly, a while back, and you disappeared from here for a couple of days. And when you returned, you never did answer "No, it doesn't".
<what I am saying is that a person who denies orthodox doctrine.....>
what you call "orthodox doctrine" is NOT "THE WORD OF GOD". Why do you refer to it as "DOCTRINE" when "SCRIPTURE" alone "IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE"??? you are attempting once more to elevate man made writings to the level of "THE WORD OF GOD" which IT IS NOT.
<....PROBABLY not SAVED despite the fact they claim they are>I've been "SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH" in my LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST because I "HEAR" and "BELIEVE IN HIM" AND "THE WORD OF GOD". And i REJECT the idea that there is any other "doctrine" outside of "THE WORD OF GOD" which is "PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE", including, but not limited to any "creed" or "church" writing by man. "THE WORD OF GOD" teaches "FAITH cometh by HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD". "IT IS WRITTEN" and "IT IS" sufficient in ALL THINGS.<how can you be SAVED by SOMEONE(JESUS CHRIST) you don't BELIEVE IN?>
once again you REJECT THE "TRUTH", "THE WORD OF GOD" ITSELF which SAYS "FAITH cometh by HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD". I have "HEARD" and "BELIEVED". Clearly you haven't, because you question "THE WORD OF GOD'S" sufficiency which I BELIEVE IN.
you need to examine where you picked up and believe the FALSE teaching that "THE WORD OF GOD" is NOT sufficient in proclaiming WHO GOD IS. Or that a person like myself who "BELIEVES IN HIM" and "THE WORD OF GOD" does not "KNOW THE CERTAINTY" as to WHO their LORD and SAVIOUR IS. You didn't learn what you are trying to teach here about this from a "BELIEVER IN HIM", that's for sure. And this lockstep "modalist" rant which is only recent here amongst many of the posters does you no favors. It points to FALSE teaching. 100%"MY sheep HEAR MY VOICE"
Feb 26 10 3:00 PM
Posts: 5447
Feb 26 10 4:11 PM
Feb 26 10 4:26 PM
I do deny the Trinity theory. But for you to say, "how can you be [saved without believing in Jesus]" is rediculous.
The Roman Catholic Church says, "This is orthodox, and that's the way it is!". The Greek ORTHODOX Catholic Church says, "This is orthodox, and that's the way it is!". RCC/XRC "Tiny" Tim says "This is orthodox, and that's the way it is!"
Feb 26 10 4:58 PM
Tim, here's the problem.... No you have never said "salvation depended on an orthodox church being involved" but you have illuded to it several times. You have called me a heretic, which I don't mind coming from you, several times, and have said I will have to answer for it. Fact is, I won't. I am saved by grace, but that's another matter. I don't deny the Virgin birth or the Diety of Christ. I do deny the Trinity theory. But for you to say, "how can you be [saved without believing in Jesus]" is rediculous. To say I don't believe in Jesus Christ is simply outrageous and far from the truth of what I believe. I simply believe he was ALL of God, and not one third, not the second person of the Trinity or any of that crap. He was God. Bottom line. End of discussion.
Feb 26 10 5:40 PM
BrianT wrote: On the matter of the Trinity, all three of those are in agreement - opposing the "orthodox" view of the Trinity, by definition, puts you outside of the Christian church. If you feel comfortable with that, that's between you and God, but I for one would not be confident opposing such a definitive doctrine.
Feb 26 10 7:04 PM
<play do>
you've hit the nail on the head. The "BELIEVER IN CHRIST" is called by CHRIST to do two things in order to be "SAVED". To "HEAR" and "BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD", which HE HIMSELF SPOKE. HE never called the LOST to "hear" and "believe" the teachings of men, which ARE NOT "DOCTRINE" according to "THE WORD OF GOD". HE clearly warned AGAINST it(Matthew 23/24). words of men, which these people here are trying to pawn off as "doctrine", are NOT "THE WORD OF GOD", and have been manipulated(as have those who accept that lie) over and over by satanic CULTS which roman catholicism is chief amongst them.
Tim says:
<on the matter of the trinity, all THREE OF THOSE ARE IN AGREEMENT>
what Tim has done is tell us that whatever "church" he is a part of is "yoked" with a satanic CULT, namely the rcCULT. This is another clear reason why "THE WORD OF GOD" is Sooooooooooooooo wonderful when "IT" clearly states "ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, and IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE...". Now we "KNOW THE CERTAINTY", through HIS "profitable DOCTRINE" that what these folks here are calling "doctrine" IS NOT "profitable for DOCTRINE". as to why we who do "BELIEVE IN CHRIST" are not to let ourselves become entangled with FALSE teachings like this is that it leads souls in line with the satanic CULT of rome as this has proven out here. The last two satanic entities on earth I would want to claim ALLIANCE with would be the roman catholic CULT, or islam.<I simply say>
Take CHRIST'S example in the temptation. HE'S the TEACHER. "IT IS WRITTEN"...and when the "BELIEVER IN HIM" does that, they are NEVER MISTAKEN. Nor do they align themselves with deception cults/cultisms as we have seen done here.And you can tell Brian T that you he better be a whole bunch more concerned about being outside of "CHRIST" than "outside" of what he calls "christian church". Because no "BELIEVER IN CHRIST" aligns themselves with satan or his catholic cult.
Feb 26 10 7:55 PM
Christian church?!?!? By WHO'S definition? Your's, the Catholic's, the Greek Orthodox???? Or the BIBLE definition?
Feb 27 10 1:42 AM
Feb 27 10 4:29 AM
" If you disagree with what the universal church teaches, you are by definition not part of that church."
Feb 27 10 12:19 PM
Feb 27 10 12:48 PM
Feb 27 10 3:30 PM
According to "THE WORD OF GOD", we who are CHRIST'S are referred to as "whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM" to be exact. That is, if you are referring to those of us who "shall not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE"?
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