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Posts: 2300
Apr 25 09 8:37 PM
Bible Believer
Posts: 7270
Apr 25 09 9:27 PM
Apr 25 09 10:54 PM
Posts: 1802
Apr 25 09 11:28 PM
cheezit01 wrote: ASongOfDegrees wrote: Where have you been? Right here, reading all the NON proof you that all of you have NOT provided for your KJVO stance. Steemaker doesn't want any proof. Well gee, if you guys actually had any, you could actually provide it and see, couldn't you? Or would that be too easy? And if you try to give him some he'll just continue to ramp up his railing against the Bible and against those who believe in it. But it would be too easy to actually give him proof, wouldn't it. I, for one, feel that the KJVO stance is silly, as apparently does Steelmaker. And I certainly don't "rail against the Bible", neither have I ever seen Steelmaker do it. As for my part, I am NOT against *anyone* who believes in the Bible. I just think that the attitude that the KJV is the *only* "valid" english version is patently absurd. I noticed, cheezit, that you have a habit of running to the defense of railers and gainsayers. You pulled this same thing on Soldiers for Christ. Keep up the good work! I may periodically do that when the accusers have no proof for their side of the argument and all they can do is make baseless accusations against those on the opposite side of the argument. Kind of like YOU are doing to me right now. So, you'll just have to forgive me if I don't really care much what you have "noticed". As far as SoC, how about some examples. Now then, do you or do you not have *any* concrete proof FROM GOD that the KJV is the ONLY VALID VERSION of HIS WORD for English speaking people? Because the simple FACT of the matter is, if you don't then the KJV Only belief is a personal one and that is ALL that it is.
ASongOfDegrees wrote: Where have you been?
Steemaker doesn't want any proof.
And if you try to give him some he'll just continue to ramp up his railing against the Bible and against those who believe in it.
I noticed, cheezit, that you have a habit of running to the defense of railers and gainsayers. You pulled this same thing on Soldiers for Christ. Keep up the good work!
"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure." - Segal's Law
Posts: 435
Apr 26 09 12:21 AM
ASongOfDegrees wrote: You obviousily are a "johnny come lately" to this whole matter concerning steelmaker.
I will not waste one more second discussing anything with him.
Do you or do you not have *any* concrete proof FROM GOD that the KJV is the ONLY VALID VERSION of HIS WORD for English speaking people? Because the simple FACT of the matter is, if you don't then the KJV Only belief is a personal one and that is ALL that it is.
Posts: 3154
Apr 26 09 8:22 AM
XrcTim wrote: Back to Erasmus Obviously he must of been a Protestant
Posts: 85958
Apr 26 09 1:35 PM
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Apr 26 09 2:28 PM
According to actual evidence that has been documented and posted in a thread at the Which Bible forum, Erasmus was not a Protestant. Erasmus remained a Roman Catholic. Your claims about Erasmus are inaccurate.
Apr 26 09 2:49 PM
Posts: 786
Apr 26 09 3:02 PM
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. King James Bible
Apr 26 09 3:04 PM
Apr 26 09 4:14 PM
CJAV1611 wrote: they are on a mission to remove the Word of God
Apr 26 09 4:24 PM
XrcTim wrote: He was a catholic in name only as far as I can tell from biographies about him.
The HarperCollins Dictionary of Religion stated that Erasmus "remained a staunch Catholic and Augustinian priest" (p. 341). Arthur McGiffert noted that Erasmus "was a loyal and orthodox Catholic to the end of his life, and to break with the Catholic Church, or to undermine its influence, was the last thing he wished" (History, II, p. 392). Thomas James (1571-1629) asserted that Erasmus "was both in heart and in outward profession, a papist" (Treatise, p. xxx). V. Green wrote that Erasmus "did not criticise the doctrine of the Church, its sacraments, its priesthood or its hierarchy" (Luther and the Reformation, p. 141). Although Erasmus criticized excesses in the Catholic Church, he remained loyal to the Pope. Campbell cited Sir Richard Jebb as noting that "Erasmus never departed an inch from his allegiance to Rome" (Erasmus, Tyndale, and More, p. 233). In a letter to Conrad Pellican, Dolan noted that Erasmus "continually reiterates his conviction that the Church of Rome is the one and only Church" (Essential Erasmus, p. 207). Mourret pointed out that Erasmus "wished to maintain amicable relations with Rome, dedicated his New Testament to the Pope, and gloried in the Brief of felicitation which the Pontiff sent him" (History of the Catholic Church, V, p. 305).
John Faulkner mentioned where Erasmus affirmed: "But one should not determine for himself as to doctrine, but let the Catholic Church speak, to whose judgment I submit everything" (Erasmus: The Scholar, p. 177). Erasmus wrote: "Let us remain in union with the Catholic Church," and "Hold fast to what the Catholic Church has handed down to us from Holy Scripture" (Dolan, Essential Erasmus, pp. 357, 375). He claimed: "It is more detestable to withdraw from the Church and take up heresy or schism than to live impurely and remain orthodox in our belief" (Ibid., p. 376). David Bentley-Taylor quoted Erasmus as writing: "I know no faith but that of the Catholic Church" (My Dear Erasmus, p. 133). He noted that Erasmus reiterated: "I shall remain steadfastly in the Catholic camp, upholding the cause of truth" (Ibid., p. 162). Bainton cited Erasmus as writing in a letter to Hutten the following: "When have I ever condemned the canon law and the decretals of the popes?" (Erasmus of Christendom, p. 177). Kutilek observed: "Boldly and repeatedly, Erasmus declares himself to be a loyal and devoted Romanist, consenting to all that Rome stood for doctrinally, with its Mary-worship, veneration of the saints, sacrifice of the mass, papal supremacy, purgatory, monastic vows and orders and all else" (Erasmus, p. 21). Campbell wrote that time and again "Erasmus made the ex cathedra rulings of the Church his final court of appeal and accepted them in a true spirit of Catholic obedience" (Erasmus, Tyndale, and More, p. 276). Butler confirmed that "Erasmus repeatedly and explicitly disclaimed in his works, every opinion that was contrary to the faith or doctrines of the Catholic Church" (Life of Erasmus, p. 194).
Apr 26 09 4:29 PM
XrcTim wrote: he was warned not to pursue the text issue since Rome's position was and is the Latin Vulgate which I believe that Erasmus rejected.
Eugene Rice maintained that "Erasmus grew up in an environment of devotion to St. Jerome" (Saint Jerome, p. 116). This admiration is clearly evident in Erasmus's book on the Life of Saint Jerome. Jerome, translator of the Vulgate, was the favorite church father of Erasmus (Who's Who in Christian History, p. 235). McGrath affirmed that Jerome was "Erasmus' favourite patristic writer" (Reformation Thought, p. 57). Sowards wrote: "It seems clear, that from beginning to end, Erasmus's personal favorite among the Christian fathers was St. Jerome" (Desiderius Erasmus, p. 139). B. Hall commented: "For Erasmus, Jerome was the ideal of the true theologian" (Dorey, Erasmus, p. 84). Rice cited Erasmus as writing Pope Leo X that Jerome is "chief among the theologians of the Latin world" (Saint Jerome, p. 118). William Woodward noted that "Jerome represented for Erasmus all that was most learned, sober, eloquent in Christian theology" (Desiderius Erasmus, p. 22). Rummel wrote: "In the Annotations Erasmus made comprehensive use of Jerome's writings, citing them for background information, to support emendations, to discuss suitable translations for individual words, and to put them into the proper theological context" (Erasmus' Annotations, p. 54). Rice pointed out that when some other writers championed Augustine over Jerome that "Erasmus continued to champion Jerome" (Saint Jerome, p. 137).
In his defense of his revision of the Latin New Testament, Erasmus wrote: "As I do not uproot the old version, but by publishing a revision of it make it easier for us not only to possess it in a purer form but to understand it better" (Worth, Bible Translations, p. 63). Rice noted that Erasmus agreed with Jacques Lefevre d'Etaples and Paul of Middleburg that the Latin Bible in common use in their day had readings that Jerome said he had corrected (Saint Jerome, p. 178). Richard Rolt pointed out that Erasmus wrote Pope Leo X that his design was not "to contradict the vulgar Latin, but to correct the faults that had crept into it" (Lives, p. 39). Boyle confirmed that Erasmus "disclaims any intention to rival the publicly read version of the text" (Erasmus on Language, p. 12). M. A. Screech observed that "Erasmus' starting-point was the Vulgate, and his goal was a scholarly revision of it" (Reeve, Annotations, p. xii). David Daniell noted: "Erasmus's chief aim was to correct the Vulgate; to make a new Latin text from the Greek that would avoid, and correct, the Vulgate's many mistakes" (William Tyndale, p. 60).
Apr 26 09 6:06 PM
Shain1611 wrote: Hi Brother Nit pick ,,you are be to kind. As much as they attack the King James Bible how could they in all good conscious sit down and read any Bible and call it the Word of God??
Apr 26 09 6:30 PM
Apr 26 09 9:30 PM
XrcTim wrote: It is also true that at his death he was surrounded by his Protestant friends.
Are you claiming that if a Roman Catholic has any Protestant friends that means that he is now actually a Protestant? Dolan asserted that Erasmus died July 12, 1536, "fortified by the sacraments of the Church" (Essential Erasmus, p. 23). W. E. Campbell cited a source that said that Erasmus "died in the presence, and with the spiritual assistance of a Catholic priest, Lambert Coomans, a former protege of his, some time his secretary, who, at the very end, performed the duties of his chaplain" (Erasmus, Tyndale, and More, p. 275). Campbell noted that Coomans claimed that "Erasmus had died in his arms as a devout Catholic, with an invocation to our Lady on his lips" (p. 272). Campbell pointed out that "in 1529, seven years before his [Erasmus'] death, we have his own declaration that he would never dare to leave this life without having confessed his sins to a priest" (p. 277). Halkin also cited where Erasmus wrote: "I never dared, or would dare, to approach Christ's table, or to leave this life without having confessed to a priest what weighed on my conscience" (Erasmus, p. 255). Halkin maintained that the body of Erasmus "was placed in the Chapel of the Virgin in the Cathedral" (p. 266). Does the fact that Erasmus died in a Protestant city make him a "Protestant?" Erasmus had come to Basle in 1535 to superintend the publication of one of his books.
Apr 26 09 9:39 PM
Apr 26 09 9:50 PM
Apr 26 09 10:15 PM
XrcTim wrote: Where did I ever say anything more than "He railed against the clergy abuse in his time."
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