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Posts: 380
Jun 23 08 2:37 PM
MaricoG wrote: I was reading this morning that Ray was saying there are no more indulgences that can be bought in the Catholic Church...
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Ray
Posts: 758
Jun 23 08 3:17 PM
Lover of the Word
As you can see, I did not say "there are no more indulgences that can be bought in the Catholic Church.."
I would like to see what steelmaker has.
Jun 23 08 3:41 PM
MaricoG wrote: As you can see, I did not say "there are no more indulgences that can be bought in the Catholic Church.." You were being sneaky, why not just admit it. You best be off to confession Ray, because you tried to give the impression that they no longer sell indulgences. You by default are anethema to the Catholic Church, I do believe. Best ask your priest. I would like to see what steelmaker has. He most likely has the same thing I just posted...or he has the site with the prices for the indulgences. LOL
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Posts: 4103
Jun 23 08 4:34 PM
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Jun 23 08 5:24 PM
I believe the Catholic Church learned its lesson after Luther, and don't have outright sales of indulgences. Now they have you pay for the card and extras, are a little more discrete, by perhaps insisting on Pilgrimages by people that would not normally attend Mass at the Cathedral, the Church insures an additional infusion of funds. They are still sold, but are not described as they were. A friend needed to get a marriage annulled. It cost them $5000.00, and that was at least 15 years ago. A lot of rigamarole and five thousand bucks and they were set to go! Money buys a lot in the RCC. Those who don't have much money can join the Blue Army, where the promise of "Mary" is a get out of jail free card...er, indulgence to get out of "purgatory" the following Saturday after one's death. You have to support the Blue Army however.... I know this because I went to my old Drs. funeral where they talked about him BURNING, BURNING IN THE FIRES OF PURGATORY...and I watched his children, (my age) and his grandchildren as they watched and listened bug-eyed that their grandfather was BURNING IN FIRES.. I will never go to another Catholic funeral again....don't know what will happen if my family dies first...
Jun 23 08 5:41 PM
CJSAV1611 wrote: Mari I know this for a fact, a friend of mine lost his Catholic Father a few years back and they have a lot of money. They sent a bunch of money to Rome at the Vatican to pray their Father out of Purgatory. They sent them back a reply with some kind of formal writing and plaque which claimed they would do just that.
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Jun 23 08 5:53 PM
MaricoG wrote: Yes...you can also pay Rome to get out of a marriage, having your children bastardized by the "holy" Catholic Church. I believe the Catholic Church learned its lesson after Luther, and don't have outright sales of indulgences. (3.) Now they have you pay for the card and extras, are a little more discrete, by perhaps insisting on Pilgrimages by people that would not normally attend Mass at the Cathedral, the Church insures an additional infusion of funds. They are still sold, but are not described as they were. A friend needed to get a marriage annulled. It cost them $5000.00, and that was at least 15 years ago. A lot of rigamarole and five thousand bucks and they were set to go! Money buys a lot in the RCC. Those who don't have much money can join the Blue Army, where the promise of "Mary" is a get out of jail free card...er, indulgence to get out of "purgatory" the following Saturday after one's death. You have to support the Blue Army however.... I know this because I went to my old Drs. funeral where they talked about him BURNING, BURNING IN THE FIRES OF PURGATORY...and I watched his children, (my age) and his grandchildren as they watched and listened bug-eyed that their grandfather was BURNING IN FIRES.. I will never go to another Catholic funeral again....don't know what will happen if my family dies first...
I believe the Catholic Church learned its lesson after Luther, and don't have outright sales of indulgences. (3.) Now they have you pay for the card and extras, are a little more discrete, by perhaps insisting on Pilgrimages by people that would not normally attend Mass at the Cathedral, the Church insures an additional infusion of funds. They are still sold, but are not described as they were. A friend needed to get a marriage annulled. It cost them $5000.00, and that was at least 15 years ago. A lot of rigamarole and five thousand bucks and they were set to go! Money buys a lot in the RCC. Those who don't have much money can join the Blue Army, where the promise of "Mary" is a get out of jail free card...er, indulgence to get out of "purgatory" the following Saturday after one's death. You have to support the Blue Army however.... I know this because I went to my old Drs. funeral where they talked about him BURNING, BURNING IN THE FIRES OF PURGATORY...and I watched his children, (my age) and his grandchildren as they watched and listened bug-eyed that their grandfather was BURNING IN FIRES.. I will never go to another Catholic funeral again....don't know what will happen if my family dies first...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lets go one at a time because you are just tossing stuff out. 1. There are costs involved in most dioceses in the United States when a person applys for a declaration of nullity. The costs cover the diocesan tribunal staff and costs at least in part. The cost in my diocese is $200.00 and that does not cover the full cost. The diocese picks up the rest. Other areas of the country (the west and east coast in particular) are likely more because of the cost of living. There are three dioceses in the United States that do not charge anything. The diocese pays the cost. In my parish, if the person is not able to pay the diocese, the parish pays for them. Comments? God bless you
Posts: 7270
Jun 24 08 8:03 AM
relling wrote: MaricoG wrote: As you can see, I did not say "there are no more indulgences that can be bought in the Catholic Church.." You were being sneaky, why not just admit it. You best be off to confession Ray, because you tried to give the impression that they no longer sell indulgences. You by default are anethema to the Catholic Church, I do believe. Best ask your priest. I would like to see what steelmaker has. He most likely has the same thing I just posted...or he has the site with the prices for the indulgences. LOL ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Your information shows that indulgences are a doctrine of the Church. That is not in question. God bless you
That's right. you accept it, even though it's non-Scriptural and FALSE.
Jun 24 08 8:19 AM
"Pope Offers Catholics Time Out Of Purgatory By Y2K Indulgences" The above was the headline of a recent article in the HOUSTON CHRONICLE (Nov 28, 1998, p. 26A). The article said: "Pope John Paul II announced Friday that throughout the millennium celebration, penitents who do a charitable deed or give up cigarettes or alcohol for a day can earn an 'indulgence" that will eliminate time in purgatory... "The medieval church sold indulgences, a practice that drove Martin Luther to rebel, leading to the Reformation... "The pope said individual sinners would be granted 'plenary indulgences," a full pardon for sins as opposed to a shortening of the time spent in purgatory...He included personal acts of penitence or local charity as a way of earning an indulgence. "Throughout the period, believers will be offered a wider selection of ways to receive a plenary indulgence. They may follow tradition and attend a Mass in one of several designated churches and perform such devotions as the rosary or the stations of the cross. Or, as an appendix to the pope's letter explains, they may visit the sick, the imprisoned, or the handicapped, or give to the poor. Or they may choose an act of private sacrifice...This would include abstaining for at least one whole day from unnecessary consumption (for example, from smoking, or alcohol, or by fasting)."
Jun 24 08 1:41 PM
steelmaker wrote: Here's just one little example: "Pope Offers Catholics Time Out Of Purgatory By Y2K Indulgences" The above was the headline of a recent article in the HOUSTON CHRONICLE (Nov 28, 1998, p. 26A). The article said: "Pope John Paul II announced Friday that throughout the millennium celebration, penitents who do a charitable deed or give up cigarettes or alcohol for a day can earn an 'indulgence" that will eliminate time in purgatory... "The medieval church sold indulgences, a practice that drove Martin Luther to rebel, leading to the Reformation... "The pope said individual sinners would be granted 'plenary indulgences," a full pardon for sins as opposed to a shortening of the time spent in purgatory...He included personal acts of penitence or local charity as a way of earning an indulgence. "Throughout the period, believers will be offered a wider selection of ways to receive a plenary indulgence. They may follow tradition and attend a Mass in one of several designated churches and perform such devotions as the rosary or the stations of the cross. Or, as an appendix to the pope's letter explains, they may visit the sick, the imprisoned, or the handicapped, or give to the poor. Or they may choose an act of private sacrifice...This would include abstaining for at least one whole day from unnecessary consumption (for example, from smoking, or alcohol, or by fasting)." Now, of course, the RCC will state it doesn't actually SELL indulgences! They just word it a little differently, just as they say they don't worship mary when they really DO! (Never mind the whole 'indulgences' thingie is man-made and FALSE!)
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Jun 25 08 12:01 AM
I did not see in your examples a way for the Catholic Church to make money.
Jun 25 08 4:27 AM
MaricoG wrote: I did not see in your examples a way for the Catholic Church to make money. You crack me up sometimes Ray.
Jun 25 08 9:34 AM
Jun 25 08 10:52 AM
MaricoG wrote: Ray... (1.) do you believe in the indulgences listed above? (2.) That doing things like that keep you out of the fires of "purgatory"?
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Posts: 1837
Jun 26 08 12:45 AM
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jun 26 08 4:27 AM
FHII wrote: "There are costs involved in most dioceses in the United States when a person applys for a declaration of nullity. The costs cover the diocesan tribunal staff and costs at least in part. The cost in my diocese is $200.00 and that does not cover the full cost. The diocese picks up the rest." I'm not trying to be a moron or self righteous here... But what are the costs? If I'd just like to know...
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Jun 26 08 8:01 AM
Jun 27 08 12:43 PM
MaricoG wrote: Ray... (1.) do you believe in the indulgences listed above? (2.) That doing things like that keep you out of the fires of "purgatory"? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ray answers: (1.) Yes. (2.) That when followed as proscribed by the Church the cleansing in purgatory will be eliminated or lessened, yes.
Jun 27 08 7:13 PM
Jul 1 08 4:19 PM
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