Hey Art, I wasn't using 1 John 5:16 to back up the doctrine of purgatory, only the doctrine of mortal and venial sins.

Jesus' blood covers all sins, but not without the faith of that person and not without the repentance. Why the repentance? Because if one doesn't repent of his sins, does he really have faith? I think not. No one can truly believe in God Who created us, Christ Who died to save us, and the Holy Spirit Who guides us, if they think they can sin and not be offending our loving God. That's why repentance is necessary.

Yet 1 John 5:16-17 says, "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." Scripture makes the distinction - prayer for a brother who is in venial sin can save that brother (but that salvation is through Christ's blood, of course); but praying for someone in mortal sin will not save that brother. Mortal sin totally cuts us off from God, while venial sin injures but does not sever the relationship. Only repentance by the sinner can bring Him back to God. Because one in mortal sin does not truly have faith in God, or he would not have severed that relationship. One who commits a venial sin is simply a victim of human weakness. But no clearing of one's soul of sin - i.e., either injuring or severing our relationship with God - would not be possible without the blood of Christ.

I don't even know who or what Dagon is, so I can't comment on where the Pope's hat comes from. That "Mystery, Babylon" propaganda was just made up propaganda that anti-Catholic fundamentalists have adopted as fact. The theories that the Communion hosts and meat on Fridays are "proof" of paganism is particularly laughable. Communion host are used because they won't spoil, or mold. Bread will. We use bread at my parish - volunteers bake the bread to be used. And yes, if it's not used quickly enough, it will mold. Communion hosts seem to last forever!

About fish on Friday - that came about when the Church said that Friday should be a day of penance. Back then meat was a luxury, so as part of the penance the Church said, give up meat on Friday. Originally that included fish, but then those who relied on fishing for their livelihood complained that they were losing business, meat can be preserved for longer than fish can. So fish was defined as not being meat. There's no rule that Catholics were ever required to eat fish on Friday. The rule was "no meat" - and fish was a common alternative. So was cheese.

The astrology claim is laughable, too. The Catholic Church does not believe in astrology. About the bishops hat - I'll try to find out the real history on that. Believe me, it has nothing to do with paganism.

The rosary is simply a device for counting prayers. They're nothing pagan about that. Mary as queen of heaven comes from Revelation Chapter 12. Of course you guys have totally distorted the meaning of Revelation.

I know that you're frustrated that you can't seem to draw us out of the Catholic Church, no matter how much propaganda you dig up. We know that a lot of our history isn't pretty. We know that the priest molestation cover-up was atrocious. But you keep describing how evil and Satanic the Catholic Church supposedly is, and it just doesn't match my experience. I see a Church devoted to Christ, though some of it's members certainly show no evidence of that. Most of us do, including most priests and bishops. I don't see Mary as the center of anything we do, the most I hear about Mary is on anti-Catholic boards. I haven't heard about purgatory anywhere but on anti-Catholic boards in a long time. The most I hear about the Pope is maybe a snippet of what he said at his most recent Wednesday general audience on my local Catholic radio station, but you guys claim we can't make a move without him. That's why I remain in the Church. What I see on this board about how supposedly evil and Satanic and un-Christian we are just doesn't match, in any way, shape or form, my own experience in my Catholic life.

Radar


Last Edited By: Radar2007 Jan 13 09 12:00 PM. Edited 1 times.