Hi Brian!

Quote by Mari:
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I am speaking of born, as Jesus was born of a virgin. That is what the Bible tells us, and that is what I am sticking too.

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Quote:
I agree Jesus was born of a virgin. The issue (I'm discussing with you, Shain's still suck on Sonship) is whether "begotten" always refers to that birth. I think it doesn't, because besides physical birth, the KJV uses it in three other senses: physical resurrection (Acts 13:33, Rev 1:5), spiritual birth (Philemon 1:10, 1 Pet 1:3, 1 John 5:1, etc.), and unique relationship (Heb 11:17). Maybe you think I'm saying "begotten" does not mean physical birth - if so, sorry for not being clearer. I *do* believe it means physical birth, I just also believe it can mean other things too, as just explained.


Okay...I could tell you in my words, but they would not be near as good, so I will let Barnes say it much better than me. If you look up the verses, it will be clear, I hope.

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

This day have I begotten thee - It is evident that Paul uses the expression here as implying that the Lord Jesus is called the Son of God because he raised him up from the dead, and that he means to imply that it was for this reason that he is so called. This interpretation of an inspired apostle fixes the meaning of this passage in the psalm, and proves that it is not there used with reference to the doctrine of eternal generation, or to his incarnation, but that he is called his Son because he was raised from the dead. And this interpretation accords with the scope of the psalm.

In Act_13:1-3 the psalmist records the combination of the rulers of the earth against the Messiah, and their efforts to cast off his reign. This was done, and the Messiah was rejected. All this pertains, not to his previous existence, but to the Messiah on the earth. In Act_13:4-5, the psalmist shows that their efforts would not be successful; that God would laugh at their designs; that is, that their plans should not succeed.

In Act_13:6-7, he shows that the Messiah would be established as a king; that this was the fixed decree, and that he had been begotten for this. All this is represented as subsequent to the raging of the pagan, and to the counsel of the kings against him, and must, therefore, refer, not to his eternal generation or his incarnation, but to something succeeding his death; that is, to his resurrection, and his establishment as King at the right hand of God.

This interpretation by the apostle Paul proves, therefore, that this passage is not to be used to establish the doctrine of the eternal generation of Christ. Christ is called the Son of God for various reasons.

In Luk_1:35, because he was begotten by the Holy Spirit. In this place, on account of his resurrection.

In Rom_1:4 it is also said that he was declared to be the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead. See the notes on that place. The resurrection from the dead is represented as in some sense the beginning of life, and it is with reference to this that the terms Son, and begotten from the dead, are used, as the birth of a child is the beginning of life. Thus, Christ is said, Col_1:18, to be the first-born from the dead; and thus, in Rev_1:5; he is called the firsthegotten of the dead; and with reference to this renewal or beginning of life he is called a Son. In whatever other senses he is called a Son in the New Testament, yet it is here proved:
(1) That he is called a Son from his resurrection; and,
(2) That this is the sense in which the expression in the psalm is to be used.

This day - The words this day would naturally, in the connection in which they are found, refer to the time when the decree was made. The purpose was formed before Christ came into the world; it was executed or carried into effect by the resurrection from the dead. See the notes on Psa_2:7.

Have I begotten thee - This evidently cannot be understood in a literal sense. It literally refers to the relation of an earthly father to his children; but in no such sense can it be applied to the relation of God the Father to the Son. It must, therefore, be figurative.

The word sometimes figuratively means to produce, to cause to exist in any way; 2Ti_2:23, Unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender (beget) strifes. It refers also to the labors of the apostles in securing the conversion of sinners to the gospel: 1Co_4:15, In Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel; Phm_1:10, Whom (Onesimus) I have begotten in my bonds.

It is applied to Christians: Joh_1:13, Which were born (begotten), not of blood, etc., but of God; Joh_3:3, Except a man be born (begotten) again, etc. In all these places it is used in a figurative sense to denote the commencement of spiritual life by the power of God; so raising up stoners from the death of sin, or so producing spiritual life that they should sustain to him the relation of sons. Thus, he raised up Christ from the dead, and imparted life to his body; and hence, he is said figuratively to have begotten him from the dead, and thus sustains toward the risen Saviour the relation of father. Compare Col_1:18; Rev_1:5; Heb_1:5.



I will do a couple of posts to keep them to managable size. :p What do you think?
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. <br><br><br>Mari