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Yes, that is perhaps the point of confusion in this issue. You are right that his human flesh did not always exist. For some reason, some people see his flesh as the defining point of his being "Son", but that is not orthodox thinking. Rather, the Son was sent and made flesh.


Good...I think we then can agree that His flesh was made, not always was, but came into being through His birth by the power of God, using Mary as the vessel. So that He would also be fully human, with the same temptations as us.

This is tough to find the language, and maybe it is because it is beyond our understanding, but the Biblical verse says this:

1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

It does not say God sent His Son...but that He sent His only begotten Son. The Second Person of the Godhead, was never begotten! Only the man Jesus was...

But then we have the problem of separating the man from God, when He is fully man and fully God. See what I mean about the language, it gets tough....

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His body now is still of flesh, but of a glorified, resurrected flesh - not of the corruptible flesh we have in our pre-resurrected state.


Amen. He is no longer flesh and blood, but glorified flesh and bone. He gave all His blood for us as the sacrifice for our sins....His life.

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But "eternally begotten" has nothing to do with Mary. Notice the Creed says "eternally begotten from the father". This is not about his human body, but about the relationship as Father and Son between the first two persons of the Trinity. In other words, he was "eternally begotten" as the Son of the Father, even before he had human flesh. Everyone (even Catholics) realize his flesh and Mary had a beginning.


The problem I have with making this a doctrine, is that it is a creed that was designed by men, not inspired by God, not part of sacred Scripture, who state Jesus is "eternally" begotten, when the Scriptures do not say, nor imply this, as far as I have seen. I see that God manifested Himself in the flesh, begotten of God, made Himself as a servant, born of a woman, in a man's body, to die for us. I understand from Scripture that this is the Word of God, the Second Person of the Godhead.

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Yes, I see what you mean. Certainly, it is difficult for our minds to understand the eternal God. But the orthodox position is there was no human body involved until the incarnation. We are made in his image, so maybe there's an aspect of physicalness to Father that is hard to define and understand (the OT talks of his face, etc.), but if so, that physicalness was/is not "human".


My thoughts is that God chose to make us in His image, not in physical properties at all, since He is Spirit, but with so many things like Him...such as free will, thought, capable of action, including participating in creation, such as having children and such...

To me, this is a riveting conversation. :)
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


Mari