Hi MaricoG,

Quote:

Okay, bear with me here, as I have no axe to grind, and never fully understood this, nor had a belief one way or the other, as there has been no teaching on this in my life that I remember, or the subject ever even coming up.

I see in the OT the "Us" and the Godhead...but no teaching or belief that part of the Godhead included a Son of God, simply, (yikes) Three Persons in One God. Nothing to indicate that God had fathered Jesus, until the NT, when Jesus was born of a woman, GOD manifested in the flesh, Jesus the Christ. Fully God and fully man. I believe Jesus is fully human, and fully divine. That Jesus the man was created, the only begotten Son of God, come in the flesh.



Yes, it is not common in the OT to refer to the Godhead in terms of Father, "Son", and Holy Spirit. However, there are many things that are not readily clear in the OT that the NT clarifies - this fact of course does not prove Jesus was "Son" in the OT, but it does prove that he at least could be without the OT being explicit about it.

But consider: The "Father" in the OT. Why was he called "Father"? One can only be a "Father" if one has a "Son" (or daughter). Yes, he is "our Father" and the "Father" of all creation in one sense, but what about even before creation? The orthodox Christian belief is that it was still "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit", not "the Big Guy, the Word and the Holy Spirit".

The orthodox Christian belief is that because the Father and Son are eternal (i.e. not temporal), the Son being "begotten" (thus establishing the Father-Son relationship) is likewise eternal - not occurring at a specific point in time, but instead the Son is begotten from eternity past. The Athanasian Creed says in part:

"The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
...
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world."

Likewise, the Nicene Creed says in part:

"the Son of God, eternally begotten from the father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten not made, one in Being with the Father."

Quote:

Do you believe that Jesus the man has always been? Even though we know that flesh and blood cannot enter heaven? Do you believe God is a Spirit...or a man/spirit in heaven, as the Mormons do?



I believe Jesus has always been, always been the "Son", and always been "God". He was not also "man" until the incarnation. I believe the Father is Spirit, and is "God". Yet they are the same God, not different Gods. I am strongly Trinitarian in my beliefs, and reject the Mormon understanding.

Shain, I will respond to your post later today.