Quote:
David, speaking of the giving of the Law to Moses in the wilderness. Capitalizing is mine:

Psalms 68:7 O God, when thou wentest forth before thy people, when thou didst march through the wilderness; Selah:
8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel.
9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful rain, whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.
10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein: thou, O God, hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.
11 The Lord gave the word: GREAT WAS THE COMPANY OF THOSE THAT PUBLISHED it.

Paul, to the Jews at Antioch:

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord WAS PUBLISHED throughout all the region.

Shain, Fearless, I notice you two have deteriorated into rancor in this discussion, and though I have not read the whole thread, with Fearless's pardon, I'd like to address what I believe is the question of "where was the word of God before 1611". With respect to Fearless, I believe the question was posed wrongly and makes several false assumptions.

From apostolic days to Gutenberg, any and all books were hand lettered. Fearless's assumtion leads me to believe that the answer desired should be along the lines of, "oh, in the Old Latin of 1287 in Vienna".

Private scribes were expensive and the Catholic church had monopoly on education and we will find few copies of the Byzantine/Received text made in a monestary with gold lettering and leather and wood covers. The word of God was reproduced by believers themselves, and NO state sponsored production of ANY Scriptures, corrupt or not, were produced between Constantine in the fourth century and 1611. In England James I was also head of the church, and appointed something never before done: The production of the Bible in the vernacular for publishing through the Empire, to both churches and individual believer.

Prior to the English Reformation people did not drop into Barnes and Noble for a Bible, they only had the Jeromic Latin of the Catholics or the Old Latin/Byantine Greek produced by hand. Much of the population could not read, let alone own a hand produced Bible, which is why Paul said faith comes by HEARING the word of God, the preacher had to translate for the hearers the Old Latin or Byzantine Greek to the Celt/Gaelic of the Irish people, for example.

So while Catholicism spread only among the European nations by the sword, murder, war, and torture, the Body of Christ grew in Europe, Africa, and Asia by the infliction of Words.

Your question should not be where was the word of God before 1611, Fearless, your question should be, Is Roman Catholicism True Christianity? Because Rome has been the villain since day one. I frequently ask Jehovah's Witnesses why they slam Rome when they are carrying a Catholic Bible and show them the title page, the NWT is translated from texts based on Vaticanus, as are the NIV, NASB, etc.

Specifically, where was the word of God before 1611? All over the world, in the Byzantine Greek, in the Old Latin, and in the Massorete text of the OT, in Tyndale, Wycliffe, Great, Geneva, Taverners, and Luther. There are 2 sects of Christians in India and China that can be traced back to the Third Century AD. Their Scriptures are not Alexandrian. Luther produced from the same texts as the 1611 a Bible nearly matching it. Why did he reject the Alexandrian/Western text? The 1611 translators had Luther's Bible on the table, were they Lutherans, or were they honest men?



Tony,

I am well aware of all of this information, and I was waiting for Shain to have the guts to admit it. He knew better than you, because he knew that as soon as he did this, he would blow a hole in KJVO, just as you have. My question is valid, and I assumed nothing that isnt plainly demonstable by the facts.

It is Shain's claim, and the claim of most KJVO that God's word has to exist in one volume in order to be preserved. Now, you have just stated that God's word was not preserved in such a way for years after it was inspired. How can this be? How can God's inspired word disappear from the earth and then reappear in 1611, or actually, whenever all the bugs were fixed in the 1611? Or, must you admit that God's word does not have to exist in one volume in order to be preserved?


"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose" - Jim Elliott, martyred in Quito, Ecuador 1956