Hi,

It is interesting to see Rick Norris simply fabricate, creating his own alternate reality.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

First, I believe that the John Calvin commentary gives a fine sense of Titus 2:13, and Calvin sees the verse as the consistent apostolic form of dual addressing, even after considering the alternative "identity" attempt.

It is uncertain whether these words should be read together thus, “the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ, the great God and our Savior,” or separately, as of the Father and the Son, “the glory of the great God, and of our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.”  The Arians, seizing on this latter sense, have endeavored to prove from it, that the Son is less than the Father, because here Paul calls the Father “the great God” by way of distinction from the Son. The orthodox teachers of the Church, for the purpose of shutting out this slander, eagerly contended that both are affirmed of Christ. But the Arians may be refuted in a few words and by solid argument; for Paul, having spoken of the revelation of the glory of “the great God,” immediately added “Christ,” in order to inform us, that that revelation of glory will be in his person; as if he had said that, when Christ shall appear, the greatness of the divine glory shall then be revealed to us.

Hence we learn, first, that there is nothing that ought to render us more active or cheerful in doing good than the hope of the future resurrection; and, secondly, that believers ought always to have their eyes fixed on it, that they may not grow weary in the right course; for, if we do not wholly depend upon it, we shall continually be carried away to the vanities of the world. But, since the coming of the Lord to judgment might excite terror in us, Christ is held out to us as our “Savior,” who will also be our judge.

Which matches nicely the text from the pure Bible tradition, the Geneva and AV.

==========================================

As for "oneness Pentecostal" writers, they often blunder as modern version cornfuseniks, picking and choosing texts and translations, smorgasbord style, for convenience.  Thus you see them trying to change the Bible to match their doctrine (in this verse losing the sense that John Calvin gives). David Bernard similarly takes the Granville Sharp mistranslation of the verse and says that in Titus 2:13 the NT identifies "God and Jesus Christ as one and the same being" (Message of Romans, quoted online).  Similarly, David Bernard uses the NIV-Rick-Norris mistranslation of Titus 2:13 in his book The Oneness of God (p. 57).

==========================================

The problem is that this is wresting Titus 2:13 away from its true understanding (and dozens of grammarians and commentators give the John Calvin style of approach to Titus 2:13) -- into an artificial approach that is not what the word of God declares.

The key point: the pure word of God forms our doctrine -- we do not pick and choose and mold the word of God to match what we consider our Bible text preferences du jour.   This leads to the current Bible babble, with version and texts continually being newly created and mangled to match each one who proclaims themselves right in their own eyes.

==========================================

As for Granville Sharp, he mangled Greek grammar, and he :

"formulated a rule for essentially apologetical purposes." (Barry Hofstetter, Greek Prof, Which-Version Apologetics forum)

Sharp tried to mistranslate 9 verses in his book, claiming that they are "wrongly translated" in the AV.  Most of his false accusations against the AV are now in the trash bin of history, and Sharp's understanding of any rule is now known to be grossly in error.  Many of the quotes that Rick gives on Titus 2:13 verse are simply Sharp-parrots.

Now, with Titus 2:13, there was a long and interesting historical discussion about the pure Bible translation, and the text of the Geneva and AV were far superior to the alternate attempt to make the verse into an identity translation.  However, it is fine to study the historical back-and-forth, there is some of that on the CARM threads.  Unlike some of the other Granville Sharp blunders, at least in this verse there was a question to be considered and many who preferred the mistranslation were sincere in error.

==========================================

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Last Edited By: StevenAvery May 30 12 11:42 PM. Edited 12 times.