XrcTim wrote:

BTW, you never did answer the real question regarding "orthodox church"????? Do you believe that JESUS CHRIST can "SAVE" lost souls without an "orthodox church" involved? Why did you run away when I asked this???


When did I ever say that salvation depended on an orthodox church being involved? Jesus Christ, God the Son saves souls, not a church. What I am saying is that a person who denies orthodox doctrine such as the Virgin birth or the Deity of Christ and yes the Trinity are probably not saved despite the fact they claim that they are. How can you be saved by someone (Jesus Christ) you don't even believe in? What I also said is that a person who denies these fundamental truths would probably not attend an orthodox (fundamental) church.

Tim, here's the problem....  No you have never said "salvation depended on an orthodox church being involved" but you have illuded to it several times.  You have called me a heretic, which I don't mind coming from you, several times, and have said I will have to answer for it.  Fact is, I won't.  I am saved by grace, but that's another matter.  I don't deny the Virgin birth or the Diety of Christ.  I do deny the Trinity theory.  But for you to say, "how can you be [saved without believing in Jesus]" is rediculous.  To say I don't believe in Jesus Christ is simply outrageous and far from the truth of what I believe.  I simply believe he was ALL of God, and not one third, not the second person of the Trinity or any of that crap.  He was God.  Bottom line.  End of discussion. 

So when Steelemaker (whom you will verbally spare with again once this issue of the Trinity passes) feeds you propoganda lines like "if you don't believe in the Trinity, you don't believe in Jesus", you should reject it.  It's BS which means Bullock Dung, and you should be a bigger man and see through it.  All he is doing -- and you by believing it -- is doing what politicians do when a rival rejects their bill.  Repubs turn down health care and Dems claim the repubs want to kill senior citizens....  Dems propose a clean air bill and repubs shoot it down and the dems claim the Repubs are against clean air.  IT's rediculous!  But that is what Steal Maker is doing....

This is pretty much my last attempt to reach out to you....  If you don't see that, than I can do nothing else.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Jas 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.