"Do you still not understand? Let me try again: someone else also shares with me what God has given them - yet it is in contradiction to what you are saying. So how can I determine which of you have the true interpretation of Scripture? Since you admitted you are fallible and not in possession of "all truth", how do you know it is really what God has given you and not your misunderstanding of what God has given you?"

I will hold fast to it till you show me otherwise, which you have not really cared to, otherwise you would discuss the Scriptures with me, yet all you want is to continue talking philosophy. Teach me the Scriptures that I have misinterpreted...please!

"How can you say that, when you don't even understand what "grounds" we are discussing?"

Because Brian, I do know that the grounds you stand on are not Scripture to justify your accusations of me being a heretic, but rather creeds and orthodoxy, or as you say "the accepted understanding of the majority of Christianity throughout history" which of course you are speaking of Protestants and Catholics, of which I am neither for the Baptists were never of the Reformation for they were never of the Catholic Church. Any fundamental Independant Baptist that knows Baptist history would give a hearty Amen to that too.

"When you say I exalt myself above God, you are lying pure and simple. As for the possibility of me being in error, I fully admit it! That is why I am not making my personal interpretation of scripture the standard by which to examine everyone's interpretation of scripture."

Everytime you refuse the simple truth of God's word you exalt yourself above the Lord. Everytime you call a brother a sinner by using your own understanding of other men's understanding as the standard of righteousness, you exalt yourself above God. Everytime you teach for doctrine the commandments of men you are exalting yourself above God. You fully admit you may be wrong, then why do you not search the Scriptures? Or can you not read them for yourself, are you not a son of God as well, as you claim? You would say yes to both of those questions, so then be what you claim you are, and search the Scriptures and study these things out and get back to me, instead of useless argument, have some nobility and show me in the Scriptures where I err.

"I forgive you, but how can one tell a lie in love?"

Again, you accuse me of lying based on what? Jesus said to agree with thine adversary quickly whilst thou art in the way with him. Forgive me for lying. But hear the Scriptures I have told you, and learn. If you can't believe me, then believe God!

"If I did not care, I would not try to explain to you the simple facts of scriptural interpretation and help you to see."

What facts would those be? That the Scriptures are written in some kind of code that only certain people are privy to? That unless I go by a code that was written more than 5 centuries or more ago I cannot read the Scriptures for myself? That I need clergymen to interpret the Scriptures for me? That the common man is not as worthy as the "holy man" to read and teach the Scriptures?

"Your prayer has already been answered. The body of Christ is here, now, and has been since the early church. Paul was talking to still-alive people (and not just people in heaven) in verses like Rom 12:5, 1 Cor 12:27, etc. There is ONE body (not many), and it is not limited to the saints that have died and are in heaven. There are universal, principal doctrines which by definition indicate what membership in this one body depends on."

See, you constantly lack the full understanding of Scripture in your doctrine. Our conversation is in heaven. Christ is in heaven. We are in heaven by faith, though we walk this earth now. One is by faith, the other is by sight, we walk by faith and the just shall live by faith. Just because you do not understand or percieve that we are in Christ at the right hand of God, does not make it impossible, but in fact that is what the Scriptures say oh ye of little faith! Read and believe....

Eph. 2: 5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Phil. 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Corin. 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Heb. 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

1 John 2:27-28 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 4:2-3 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

This principle of us being in Christ at the right hand of our Father is permeated throughout the NT Brian, if you care to believe the simple plain reading of the Scriptures. I know this contradicts your natural senses, but you must overcome your flesh, and believe the Word of God despite what your five senses tell you. It is a matter of faith, not doctrine. It is our faith that is given by the grace of God that binds us as one body, not our fleshly understanding of doctrine, though doctrine is profitable for us, it is not validation of membership, otherwise that would be of our works! We behold things unseen as we walk by faith. What you see here in earth are sinners, there are no sinners in Christ as there is no sin in him. I pray that you understand this one day.

Heb. 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
 

I am not your teacher and only wish to share things with you that you may in turn try them by your own knowledge of the Lord. I really don't know any thing. Still learning and growing in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Praying for you and all men that you would also come to the knowledge of the truth and continue to grow in it. I am a sinner, but I have a hope that God through Jesus Christ our Lord will deliver me from my present situation of being a sinner and deliver me from this vile body and I thank him for this promise of eternal life. This is my faith that I share with all my brethren in the Lord who we patiently wait for. Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh.

Rom 8:22-25  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 
Last Edited By: JerryRose Feb 12 10 9:56 PM. Edited 3 times.