BrianT wrote:

"glorybe, I fully agree that "the CHRISTIANS "FAITH" is in "THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD", their LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST". But if there's no standard definition of what that means, if it's left up to each individual to come up with their own definition regardless of what anyone in the past or present thinks, only doctrinal and spiritual chaos is the result. A Mormon can claim "I have faith in the Son of the living God, the Lord Jesus Christ", a Baptist can claim it, a Muslim can claim it, a Satanist can claim it, a New-Ager can claim it, and an insane person referring to his rubber duck can claim it - but all have different definitions in mind. Having "faith in the Son of the living God, the Lord Jesus Christ" is worthless if the definition is wrong - and if everyone is left up to himself to arrive at his own definition (based on his own fallible understandings), there is no way to determine who, including oneself, is deceived. The Creeds provide the standard, universal definition for the universal Christian church, thus by definition to reject the Creeds is to be outside of that universal Christian church (and also to imply that despite your own fallibility, you are smarter, more knowledgeable, a better interpreter, and more spiritual than the rest of the entire body of Christ). Not only is that logically foolhardy, it is the height of arrogance.

Consider if we were talking about the definition of the NT canon instead of the definition of the Trinity. The NT canon was also laid out in universal Creeds. If we reject those and instead have everyone rest solely on what scripture says, it would be up to everyone not only to define the NT canon for themselves, but thus even what is "scripture" itself in the first place. Do you honestly think that's what Christ wants us to do? I don't, but that's the logical conclusion of what you and Jerry are arguing for."

Again, you show your contempt for God's holy Word. The NT canon is not men's work, not of men's doing, but of God. The creeds and the Scripture are not on par. As far as your reasoning for a need for the creeds....your reasoning is faulty for it is written....

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Yet, someone needs to DEFINE what "Jesus is the Lord" means Brian? We have the definition in the Scriptures....

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

I am not your teacher and only wish to share things with you that you may in turn try them by your own knowledge of the Lord. I really don't know any thing. Still learning and growing in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Praying for you and all men that you would also come to the knowledge of the truth and continue to grow in it. I am a sinner, but I have a hope that God through Jesus Christ our Lord will deliver me from my present situation of being a sinner and deliver me from this vile body and I thank him for this promise of eternal life. This is my faith that I share with all my brethren in the Lord who we patiently wait for. Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh.

Rom 8:22-25  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.