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To all the Modalists out there!
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Re: To all the Modalists out there!
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JerryRose
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Posts
: 176
Feb 11 10 6:09 PM
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My Recent Posts
"You say "my faith is of Christ not of men" and that's all well and good, but if your definition of Christ is wrong in the first place (and it is)..."
What? That he is the Lord?
"that "faith in Christ" is not a CHRISTian faith, for the CHRISTian faith, at a universal level, is explained as per the Creeds"
Again, spoken like a true Catholic. Replace the "Creeds" with Scripture and you'd be on the money.
"You may have a "Biblical" faith, i.e. based on the Bible, but more accurately it would be a "Jerry's deviant interpretation of the Bible" faith, for it deviates from the definitive interpretation."
According to you? You offer no definitive base for your accusation, you merely offer your own judgment.
"Wrong. There are some key, definitive doctrines that must be held, and if one holds them, they are part of the universal church, the church referred to in Acts 20:28, 1 Cor 10:32, Eph 1:22, Eph 5:23-32, Col 1:18, etc. The universal church, the "body of Christ", exists NOW."
No doubt it exists now, but you don't seem to understand that this body is at the right hand of God and not to be seen with your fleshly eyes, and again, you speak as a Catholic does who lacks spiritual understanding. Our fleshly bodies here on this earth, and our earthly understanding of things is not the body of Christ, for we will die, and Christ will never die again. You tell me then, in this kingdom you are of, called Christianity, who is in charge of what doctrines are key and essential to be a member of it? A creed that says you must do good to go to heaven? Why so many churches and divisions in this catholic church of yours when there are no schisms in the body of Christ? Sound doctrine takes work, hard work and study....and we are not saved by our works, but of grace. We study the Scriptures not to be saved, but to shew ourselves approved unto God, not to men.
"For example, the divinity of Christ, his death and resurrection are definitive doctrines: one cannot oppose these doctrines and still be part of the church."
I'm not saying that one can oppose the plain reading of Scripture Brian. I'm speaking of understanding something that is not possible to comprehend....the eternal God.
"Things like the Nicean and Athanasian Creeds lay out the definitive interpretations of scripture, and have been accepted as such by all orthodox Christians across history."
Hypostases is not in the Scripture, and is not an interpretation of anything in Scripture, but again I have no problem with that as I don't even understand it and you can't explain it, you just say I misinterpret the Creeds when I'm telling you what is there in black and white, and don't care to offer the correct interpretation yourself. Also, your evidence for such a claim that these interpretations has been accepted by the orthodox church across history is not there. You keep saying it over and over again but just because you keep repeating something does not make it true. Mary is not "The Virgin", yet that's what the creed says....is that orthodox teaching that the orthodox church has held to, or do true brethren hold to the Scriptures? I'm not arguing the Trinity with you Brian, but you have been puffed up, and now that you are confronted with your arrogance, what you once claimed was "often misunderstood by many", you now say that it has been "commonly accepted by many" to attack my character. Which is it Brian? Is the Trinity often misunderstood or commonly accepted by the majority of "Christianity"? I never argued against the teaching of the Creeds concerning the Trinity, but what is concerning me about you and Tim is that you guys hold brethren to a standard of understanding that is not even in the creeds with words like "essence" and "personalities" and "personages" and "hypostases" and condemn others for having a simple (though maybe incomplete) understanding of the eternal God.
2Co 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Steelmaker says the three are individuals....wrong for there is but one God, and he is a living intelligent being and there is only one of him. I say
the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one and the Son and the Father are one, and that is all that we can know for sure, yet you insist on your fleshly wisdom being above what is written in the Scriptures. You have set yourself up in a place you ought not to be, and that is as God. Your understanding is not greater than other men, you are just a man yourself and no one is inferior to me or you, and I refuse to bow down and worship the god of your mind, but I will worship the Lord Jesus Christ, for ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD DWELLETH IN HIM.
"Even the Anabaptists, who opposed the concept of "Creeds", did not disagree with the content of the Creeds. They were strictly Trinitarian, and would not consider someone who opposed Trinitarianism to be saved. The Anabaptists are considered part of orthodox Christianity, not because they opposed "Creeds", but because their interpretation of scripture on the definitive doctrines lined up with the Creeds anyway."
Are you not one bit shamed by your speech without any knowledge of the facts? The Anabaptists were heavily persecuted by both Protestants and Catholics, your "orthodox christianity" and anyone can do a little research to know this is true. Your "orthodox christians" were adamant about their orthodox teaching of infant baptism, orthodoxy changes and is not Truth. At best, it is a continuing study of the Truth, or could be if your kind would not have respect of persons in holding the faith of the Lord of glory. Any Independant Baptist knows this, or any Baptist for that matter that is a little concerned with their Baptist history.
"No, Jerry. Just like scripture itself, you have deviated from the proper interpretation of the Creeds as well."
Yet you don't wish to offer the correct reading, nor do you wish to discuss the important thing....Scriptures. You'd rather make accusations without any proof, or love for that matter. My goodness man, you're impossible. If I read "the cat is black", and I am telling you it says the cat is black, you insist that I 'misinterpret'! Do me a favor Brian, make your discussion and debate a little more specific as to how exactly I misinterpret so we can actually get somewhere.
"And ultimately, that is the root of the problem here."
What problem? That I confess that I am just a man and not an eternal being as God is and that his being the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost is mysterious to me? Yet I suppose you have him all figured out, you may also confess that you don't, yet your behaviour is such as if you do. How are you to judge me on what you deem God should have given me? I have an understanding, but that is all I have, an understanding that the Son of God has given to me and to my brethren, the simple understanding of the Scriptures....he is my Shepherd, I shall not want....especially your philosophies.
I am not your teacher and only wish to share things with you that you may in turn try them by your own knowledge of the Lord. I really don't know any thing. Still learning and growing in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Praying for you and all men that you would also come to the knowledge of the truth and continue to grow in it. I am a sinner, but I have a hope that God through Jesus Christ our Lord will deliver me from my present situation of being a sinner and deliver me from this vile body and I thank him for this promise of eternal life. This is my faith that I share with all my brethren in the Lord who we patiently wait for. Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh.
Rom 8:22-25
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only
they,
but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption,
to
wit
, the redemption of our body. For
we
are
saved
by
hope
: but
hope
that is seen is not
hope
: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet
hope
for? But if we hope for that we see not,
then
do we with patience wait for
it.
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